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Build

Compact Gaming PC

by Abula

Description

Finally finished the build, this is by far the hardest build i have ever done, its really hard to plan and specially to build on such a small case, sadly its not really quiet enough for me on load, but it might be fine, once i load iracing/asseto corza/rfactor2 and test it while gaming will decide if it will be used to rebuild on an SST-LD01.

Lots of planning needs to get involved to try to fit the biggest cpu cooler, for example only AsRock CPU socket placement matches the RVZ03 case fan opening, i also tried Cryriog C1 and it matches around 70% while the noctua NH-L12S is almost a perfect match (its just couple of mm off). One thing that i don't understand still about the RVZ03 is that Silverstone webpage states 83mm as the maximum CPU cooler height, the NH-L12 is 70mm (with the fan on bottom), technically you only have 13mm left but you still can fit a NF-A12x15 PWM which measures 15mm (you still have a mm or two).

The GPU is where i kinda mess up, i knew the EVGA was not the quietest of the GTX1080Ti, but i expected the NF-A15x25 PWM to help out the card and somewhat help it not to ramp up too much, and to some point is true, but you need the NF-A12x25 above 1400rpms to not allow the EVGA GTX1080Ti not to go above 2k rpms where it goes supersonic, its still very noticeable at 1700rpms and its tone is not pleasant but thats how it is, i might do some more test into ramping higher the Noctuas, i feel even at 1600rpms they are much more tolerable than the EVGA fans. Fitting the card is really hard on the case, the great thing about it is that its one of the few 2 slots, but its very tall, making it a ritual the way you need to install it, at first i though it wouldn't fit, the power connectors (if you have the one that have dual it wont fit), you need to make them almost flat to allow the card to fit, and even then they touch the top of the case, that said, i dissemble the build so many times to do testing with filters and without, with fan pushing air or pulling that its fairly easy to install it for me now, but the first time took like 30mins no joking. Its very likely that another gpu might be better, one thing that i would like to try is a 2.5 slot card and change the two intake fans to Noctua NF-A12x15, i feel a beefier card might work better.

The biggest challenge on the build is cable management, its best to have custom cable, although if you don't use sata power you can fit something like SeaSonic Focus Platinum 550W (you can do any of the line since they are 140mm) and there is enough room to fit the cables, you will have to have an order to maximize the little space. Sadly mine the fan came defective and had a ticking noise, so decided to try out the new silverstone fanless and it helps a lot since the cables are shorter and the PSU is smaller allowing more space to place cables. Things like the memory, you will be able to fit anything close to standard profile, without heastinks the NH-L12S can fit any memory, but with heatsinks i only found Corsair vengeance to fit and even then the fan outside frame is touching.

The building its really a process that needs order, everything has to be done in certain order or else it doesn't fit or you wont be able to install something, there were lots of tries into how to route cables like IO or USB2 to route the internal dongles inside the case, 4pin extensions to reach the fans, RGB cables etc, lots of planning has to be done.

The build is very likely to be moved to Silverstone LD01, more trying to keep the components quieter, and while i enjoyed building it, it didn't end up as quiet as i would have liked.

Comments Sorted by:

TheMoonTheif 4 points 1 month ago

If you're looking for something quiet to cool the GPU you can try a similar mod as what this guy did.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/926301-2-noctua-fans-on-a-gtx-1080ti-results/

Maybe with the nf-a12x25 fans. Or the redux fans meant for SP which are very cheap on Amazon right now at like $14

Abula submitter 1 Build 2 points 29 days ago

Thanks for the suggestion and the link, i seen more NCASE this type of solution with great results, specially with EVGA cards, since its one of the few 2 slots. Im still thinking on doing it, i think its a great idea, but also considering switching GPUs toward a MSI RTX2080Ti Duke and swapping the NF-A12x25 for NF-A12x15 or Prolimatech Ultra Slim Vortex 12, but if i try your suggestion ill let you know here, thanks again for your suggestion.

kainsword 4 points 28 days ago

Speaking as someone who bought the FTZ01 a few years ago and bought and returned multiple heatsinks (including the NH-L12S), the best performing heatsink was the Silverstone NT06-PRO, after replacing the stock slim fan with a 120mmx25mm pressure optimized fan, with the fan oriented to blowing the CPU’s warm air out of the fan mounting slot opening over the CPU. Few theories behind the results: The NT06-PRO has the highest mass (without fans) and seemingly the most heatpipes (6) and just enough height clearance to fit this family of cases. I’m not particularly surprised since both the heatsink and case are Silverstone designed and may have been designed in tandem with each other. Additionally, since this family of cases lacks any proper exhaust location, besides some perforation near the motherboard I/O, it’s possible the case was recirculating warm air if it was pointed in any direction but exhausting it directly out of the case. You can’t install it while the motherboard is already in the case, it’s just too big, to reach around with your fingers to plug in the fan and other headers and such. You’d need to remove the motherboard and install the CPU+Heatsink+Fan+RAM+Modular Cables (plugged into the motherboard first, to be connected to the PSU after screwing in the motherboard) as a single unit into the case. Since the tooling is similar, I imagine my results will be similar to all members of the Silverstone ~ML07/ML08/FTZ/RVZ~ family of cases.

After settling on the heatsink I performed a delid + liquid metal application between the IHS and die and between the IHS and heatsink. I’m able to sustain a 4.5GHz all-core overclock to my i5-4690k as a 24/7 setting, at ~45C on load. I had this set higher, but certain games would blue screen every so often, so I dialed it back down over time to both the clock speed and voltage.

Additionally, considering the “quad” fan setup for the GPU compartment (where the integrated GPU heatsink has its own 2 fans, and then you have 2 case fans blowing into it directly) my instinct was that having a fan blowing into a fan is both redundant and might cause extra turbulence/noise that’s unnecessary. My solution was to replace the integrated GPU heatsink for a larger aftermarket one (the Raijintek Morpheus II Core Edition is what I used and barely fit, which is nice and optimal use of space), use 2x 120mmx25mm pressure optimized case fans for the GPU compartment, both connected to a PWM fan splitter, which is connected to a PWM fan to GPU fan adapter (Gelid CA-PWM-02 Adapter) connected directly to the GPU’s board to spin up/down according to my MSI Afterburner settings. I will say that the Morpheus II Core can be a bit ugly on the board, since it comes with individual aluminum heatsinks to mount onto memory dies and such. If I were to do this again, I’d buy a GPU that has an aluminum baseplate and backplate that you can keep on to cool the other PCB components (replacing only the finstack+fan assembly with the Raijintek Morpheus II Core). These are available commonly on EVGA videocards. That being said, it’s not visible in the case, and the air being blown onto the surface mounted components + heatsinks is enough to keep them at normal operating temperatures. Also, fan orientation didn’t seem to matter here as far as thermals for the GPU compartment. I left the fans to intake air.

After settling on the aftermarket GPU heatsink, I also used a liquid metal application between the GPU die and heatsink. This is was common a few years back to get better thermals for GPUs (which ran hotter than CPUs and were more sensitive to lower temps for boost-related clocks) but has since fallen out of favor with most enthusiast which often just suggest to use something like a high performance compound such as Kryonaut instead. I’ve since cleaned out the PC and reapplied liquid metal a few months back, and besides the usual surface marring on dies known to happen with liquid metal applications (but doesn’t affect operation or performance) I saw no adverse effects of the liquid metal application. I did of course use a quality electrical tape to cover up PCB and other surface mounted components right next to the die to protect them from any spill over (which has not happened due to proper thin layer application of liquid metal to both contact surfaces).

This has just been my experience. NT06-Pro + Raijintek Morpheus II Core + 3 120x25mm pressure optimized case fans + liquid metal thermal interface has provided the best overclocking results that I’ve found. Have fun with the new build.

Abula submitter 1 Build 1 point 21 days ago

Thanks for your detailed info, really interesting read.

I considered the NT06-Pro, and i do agree it seems the biggest cooler you will be able to fit on the RVZ03, but at the same time this cooler seems design for the times when the CPU socket was right next to the PCIe, and also the RVZ03, seems it would match perfectly growing opposite to the PCIe, today mobos have changed this a lot, now the CPU socket placement is more opposite, making it really hard to install a cooler like NT06-Pro toward the PCIe slot, and placing to the IO or toward the memory would not match the side panel fan opening. Imo, i feel what makes the NH-L12S work well is the fan openings, i also tested the C1 and it was 7C higher even with NF-A12x25@2k rpms, i feel the NT06-Pro would behave very similar on my setup because of the CPU socket location.

One very interesting thing you did brought up is the Raijintek Morpheus II Core, this could be a game changer for me, as i said before the CPU is not a big deal, i can sustain prime95 @4.7 below 80C, and i can even relax more the fan curves in gaming as no game will load a cpu like prime95, but my issue is the GPU, where i do expect loads to be very high with 3x2560x1440@144fps, which is harder to push than 4k60, knowing in advance i wont be able to reach 144fps, i still feel the GPU will be pegged most of the time, so temps will be high, and if the Raijintek Morpheus II Core with the 2x NF-A12x25 PWM can handle the EVGA GTX1080Ti FTW3 quietly, then ill be happy and very likely i wont move the setup to LD01.

I'll update if i decide to go with Morpheus, thanks for the suggestion.

nimdjid 3 points 29 days ago

Hi mate! My first ever post here and I signed up just 5 minutes ago so I could post a comment and a few questions for you :)

I really like your build and your motivation to accomplishing it. Yes Ive read through all your comments here, and on "ThatBuilders" build as well as your comments and discussion on that youtube review from AV Techy,

I have been researching for over 2 weeks on how to build my own powerful but small livingroom PC. I recently had to sell my stationary ATX rig because of space so now I have to build something brutal to put next to the TV in the livingroom. It must be strong enough to deliver as close to 60 fps stable for a 4k TV. Since my TV is 4k I need to run that resolution and since it doesnt have freesync/gsync capability I just need strong horsepower go be able to keep it at its 60hz/fps requirement for smooth feeling.

Ive been looking for all type of projects from watercooling a node 304 to a much bigger cube like chassi to put on my subwoofer.. But never really found the ideal size and functions for the case. I want to run either a 8700k or a ryzen 2700x CPU. I think the ryzen will be enough though since Im planning to game on 4k then I guess it all comes down to the GPU.

Anyway a few days ago I found this type of form factor chassi possible as well since it can be laid flat and not take so much space on my TV bench. Since then I have been reading and reading as much as I can about this before I decide completly what to build.

So here's where I found you. I would really appreciate it if you had the time to help me with some build preperations and whtnot.. My dilemma here is that I would like a bit of everything in my build. I need to overclock at least the GPU as much as I can but I still want it as cool as possible so it doesnt make too much noise. I know sounds ridicolus but the benchmarks Ive seen 1080ti is really close to 60fps in 4k so I need a little overclocking just to be able to lock it at that magic 60 fps number. However I really dislike noise from my rig.. Since I think most noise will come from the GPU I think Im as interested as you are in finding the optimal solution for the GPU.

What I know so far is that Im planning to buy the 600w corsair SFX PSU v2 that will be released any day now. Im not sure about the cables for that PSU but I think they are shorter then the seasonic focus (I had that PSU in my ATX build). I think this corsair psu is good for this case since its smaller form factor and I think smaller cables. Not sure about the stiffness of the cables though but there might be some cable exhange possibly in worst case.

For the CPU I think Im leaning towards ryzen 2700x and mobo is probably gonna be Asus ROG Strix X470-I Gaming. I was first thinking of using a AIO for the CPU as Ive seen some people do that but your solution with the noctua cooler seems equally as good. I might just copy that 100%.

RAM Im thinking some G-skill stuff but I guess doesnt matther since it seem to fit nomatther what right?

The important part is the GPU here. I have not bought it yet as Im waiting for either black friday or for some people to start dumping their 1080ti when upgrading to 2080/ti. So Im not entirely sure if I buy a 1080ti or a 2080. I can not rewally buy a 2080ti because of its price... That would solve a lot of my problems but it is what it is..

So Im thinking about the options here from all that I have gathered in my research: * 1080ti/2080 with 2slot cooler and exchange the fans for noctua fans like suggested in your comment thread looks possible. This together with changing the thermal paste as well might be really good. Altough Im not sure I wanna loose warranty if I buy a completly new card. Then run 2 noctua fans like you or others with higher static pressure. Basically this is your setup except changing the fans on the GPU together with possible changing thermal paste.

*1080ti/2080 2.5 or 3 slot cooler and using a slim fan like the ones you use on your CPU (not sure about how the static pressure is on those though). Not even sure if they really will fit either with a 3 slow cooler but I guess with a 2.5 slot cooler they will.

So I guess my final question is, with my requirements and with I want to build, do you think it is possible or do you think I will be dissapointed by the thermals and annoyed by the noise nomatther what i will try here? I read that you are really close to ditching the case for another larger one but in my situation that is really not possible. Ive already researched every cube case I could find and now all thats left are these smaller playstation type cases (not sure what to call them). Also last question if you might know.. If there is at all any difference between this case and the FTZ01 case except for the material its build with and some LED lighting.

Thanks again mate!

Abula submitter 1 Build 4 points 28 days ago

I would say that cooling a 1080Ti or 2080Ti its easy on RVZ03, but quietly its hard, there are good suggestions already from other posters, like taking off the shroud and allowing better airflow for the NF-A12x25, i think that would help, as i seen it done on the Ncase with good results. I strongly believe the EVGA card is not ideal for a quiet build even on ATX setup, i chose it out of very few 1080ti being dual slot and that have 3x display ports, now on the RTX2080ti, Asus ROG Strix seems to be the quietest according to techpowerup review using the quiet vbios, if you dont have the need for 3 display ports, and you are fine with 2dp and 2hdmi, and since you already discarded the TI for budget, then the card that i recommend you look into is the ASUS ROG STRIX GeForce RTX 2080, has the same cooler and vbios switch (normal and quiet) as the Ti, but remember this is thicker card so you will need slimmer fans like Prolimatech Ultra Slim Vortex 12 or Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM, and im not sure they will fit 100% but its very likely. The Asus ROG Strix comes with extra 4pin to control PWM fans, you could connect the two case fans of the gpu size of the RVZ03 to Asus ROG RTX2080, check the following video at the exact time im posting, you will see the connectors ROG Strix GeForce RTX 2080 OC Edition [REVIEW] d'Asus.

About the Corsair SF600 Platinum (cosair didn't reply), i waited 3 months for it to hit retail, i preordered on amazon just to have it cancelled by them twice, so i a gave up, and having watched the TheBuidler ran Seasonic Focus Plus, i decided to go that route and then the new silverstone, either will work fine.

About the ram... depends on the CPU cooler you will use, but in most scenarios i would recommend to look into standard height or as close as you can, Corsair Vengeance is as high as i could go with the NH-L12S, i couldn't find anything from gskill that would fit on mine.

I have made a picture for you to see, comparing the three motherboards, one that TheBuilder used, the one that i used and the one that you want to use, this is the type of planning you need to do to chose coolers, from what i can see, your motherboard has the socket placement more like TheBuilder, so my initial recommendation is to go with the Cryorig C1 like he did, you can use the included fan or you can change it toward a 25mm, probably the NF-A12x25 will fit on the side of the RVZ03 (it fitted on mine, but i don't own your motherboard to guarantee it will), also i dont know how is the AM4 mounts, if it can go any side or not, placed toward the PCIe you will run in the issue that Thebuilder had, but if you can mount it like he did toward the IO, i think you will be fine (again i don't know how it would mount). You are very likely to use be able to use gskill ram if you are able to mount it like he did.

Now my suggestion to you is try to check well the space you have, i also don't recommend placing it over the sub, the vibration might have an effect on your setup, specially if you use a 2.5 mechanical, but even if you don't, i wouldn't gamble placing it over the sub. If you have access to the wall you could use something like Peerless Adjustable Component Shelf for AV EQ, that would sustain 100 pounds, that will allow you to place almost any case on it.

Now since you are into LED, check the Silverstone LD01B, while its not as small as the RVZ03, if you have the space it could work, the great thing about it is that its micro ATX, but the reverse styled allows some fans to give fresh air to any GPU, there is a very nice motherboard about to be released, ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XI GENE, it will also allow you to install a AIO or a tall tower cooler, you can place the led fans you wish as the front and side panels are glass, in case you are interested i live you a video, eTeknix Silverstone Lucid LD01 Addressable RGB Timelapse Build, this is my backup plan if i cant make my build quiet enough, but i need to fit it on AV shelf so im going to use it horizontal adding some rubber bumpers.

If you still want to peruse the RVZ03 ill be around, so ask whatever else you want.

Garog 1 Build 2 points 1 month ago

Beautiful build, well done. To be honest, at the current frequency you're running the 8700K, having temps of 70-80c is extremely good for such a tight case. I'd love to have one of these small form-factor builds with that CPU and make it into the perfect living room Emulation Station.

Abula submitter 1 Build 2 points 29 days ago

Thanks for the feedback, tbh im also surprised into the temperatures with the NH-L12S, when i tested Cryorig C1 with NF-A12x25 i expected better results (because of thicker and better fan), but in less than 30min i already hit 86C (22C ambient), the temps is not that bad, but the bad thing is the NF-A12x25 was already running at max rpms (pic below), even if i disregard the noise, there will be days that the ambient will be higher, so to me its not good not to have some headroom in case conditions gets worst. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/653x1321q90/922/V0iE66.png

ThatBuilder 3 Builds 2 points 1 month ago

Well done! Congratulations on completing this build: It looks neat! The SFF power supply looks like it's giving you more breathing room for the cables compared to mine having a full-size power supply. But nice. You got some real power into this form factor.

PS, I left a comment on the other thread but I'll repeat it here: I used CableMod for custom-cut cables, using measurements that do not include the plug (only measuring cable length). But make sure when you measure that you include some slack so that the cables are comfortable and not pulled tight (adding an extra 10cm or so to all measures should work). They should run comfortably, not be tugging on anything and not interfering with any fans.

Abula submitter 1 Build 3 points 29 days ago

First let me thank you for all the replies you posted on your build to my questions, your build was the inspiration for mine, and lots of you choices and advice made this one possible.

About the cables, i think it will help a lot, specially using the Seasonic Focus, but in my case was a little easier than yours since i didn't use any sata drives, so the space was enough to tuck the 24pin + 8pin cpu + 2x PCIe cables, so at the end i didnt need to resort to custom cables, although i still think it would help some in terms that the current take more space than needed, sadly my PSU had a defective fan, decided to try the Silverstone SST-NJ450-SXL, this psu already comes with smaller cables, you end up with smaller PSU that would allow sata cables and probably molex to be installed without much of an issue, that said the cables are stiffer than seasonics but i don't feel the need to go custom anymore.

Again thanks for all the suggestions and responses you gave me, you helped me a ton.

galacticPerson 2 points 1 month ago

kool.

Abula submitter 1 Build 2 points 29 days ago

Thanks for feedback =)

galacticPerson 2 points 29 days ago

:>

Bronstet 4 Builds 2 points 1 month ago

Excellent work. I strongly suggest attaching the included magnetic dust filters to the outside of the case.

Abula submitter 1 Build 2 points 29 days ago

Thanks for the feeback and suggestion. I tested with an without the filters, and its 4C difference and higher running rpms on the fans to compensate, but i do agree, the PC will have the dust fan filters always.

Valantar 2 points 1 month ago

Nice build! I wonder if you'd have better luck with the noise levels of you removed the fans and shroud from the GPU and just set the Noctuas to blow directly onto the heatsink, though. If you wanted to, you could even connect the fans directly to the card's fan headers with an adapter (Gelid makes a great one for 4-pin connectors) and have the GPU fan curve control them.

Abula submitter 1 Build 2 points 29 days ago

Thanks for the comments and suggestion. I think a lot of SSF builds have had good results with removing the shroud on evga cards and using directly 120mm fans, its something that im still considering, my guess is that it would work out better, but im also considering trying out an MSI RTX2080Ti Duke, but i gotta feeling that it wont fit with 25mm fans on it, so i might have to change the fans. Ill be sure to update the build in the next month upon more testing and switching.

neo_explorer84 3 Builds 2 points 29 days ago

Delid the 8700K man, you'll drop 15ish degrees!

Abula submitter 1 Build 1 point 29 days ago

Thanks for the suggestion, its delided already.

neo_explorer84 3 Builds 2 points 28 days ago

Oh! Cool!

ApeWithRock 3 Builds 1 point 1 month ago

Its beautiful

Abula submitter 1 Build 1 point 29 days ago

Thanks for the feedback, glad you like it.

Phildilf 3 Builds 1 point 1 month ago

Damn, this is sexy.

Kudos! +1

Abula submitter 1 Build 3 points 29 days ago

Thanks for stopping by and your kind comments.

beardedmisfit 1 Build 1 point 29 days ago

Great build! +1

Abula submitter 1 Build 2 points 29 days ago

Thanks for the feedback.

Clocksoicy084 1 point 29 days ago

Very nice build. I have a question though. Why did you screenshot after 2 hours and 1 hour of stress testing respectfully on air?

Abula submitter 1 Build 1 point 29 days ago

Thanks for the kind comments.

About the screenshots, i tested a lot of different setups, specially on the NH-L12S, with the two NF-A12x15 pulling air in, then with and without filters, with and without GPU, then Cryoriog C1 with the same testing... and on all horizontal and vertical to see differences and what would work better. The 2 hour prime was more because around there there is a spike on the load test where the CPU reaches its peak, i did one with 4 hours and had the same results, so i did all the testing at 2 hour. And the 1 hour was more for trying to simulate a gaming session, usually i come from work and do a couple of test a day, took me about to two weeks to complete them all, once i settle i can get a RTX2080Ti or i removed the shroud of the EVGA, ill do some more testing =)

ethanlevine 1 point 28 days ago

is a 450w power supply enough for a 1080ti and an 8700k?

Abula submitter 1 Build 1 point 28 days ago

Yes, you can see the last uploaded picture, you will see the consumption under Heaven4, thats of the wall, so the DC is lower, probably still has around 130W to spare.

k3y3 1 Build 1 point 27 days ago

Amazing! So small and yet so powerful. Great job with this.

Abula submitter 1 Build 1 point 27 days ago

Thanks for your kind comments, glad you like it.

akimboo 1 point 27 days ago

:)

Camranatic101 2 Builds 1 point 24 days ago

this is actually really cool, I was thinking about doing something like this for someone with a Node 202, and the Scythe Big Shuriken II or whatever it's called for cooling the cpu

shado123 1 point 18 days ago

This might sound like a weird question but can this case fit in your standar backpack? looking to get one for a lan computer

Abula submitter 1 Build 2 points 17 days ago

Its not a big case by any means, but i don't think it would fit on standard backpack, probably will fit on a slightly bigger than a standard backpack. One thing to mention is that start to get heavy once you install the components, depending on what you put in, it wont be a light as a gaming laptop. In case you still prefer to build, look into Dan Case and/or Ncase M1, both would have a smaller footprint than the RVZ03 or alikes.

shado123 1 point 17 days ago

how big is it compared to a matx case also thanks for the response

odlanyerghost 1 point 14 days ago

Hi, can you help me with the doubts I have in my ITX build? https://pcpartpicker.com/forums/topic/297992-itx-pc-build

Thanks in advance

Abula submitter 1 Build 2 points 14 days ago

Sure thing, ill help you with what i can. I did answer you on youtube, but ill copy to your topic.

rschearer 0 points 1 month ago

Honestly good work but that's just a lot of hardware for such a small case. It's definitely running everything hot. Not even sure how you got all that in there

Abula submitter 1 Build 1 point 29 days ago

Thanks for the comments, its a pretty nice experience to build on a small case, although very unlikely that ill repeat it in the future, unless i can get the build to operate quieter, but its a work in progress still.

rschearer 1 point 28 days ago

Understandable for sure! It looks great. I've always wanted to do a small build but I know I'll mess it up

Ghavyn2004 0 points 1 month ago

you should have gotten a 1080ti mini its smaller and pretty much the same as a full size 1080ti

Abula submitter 1 Build 1 point 29 days ago

Thanks for the opinion, personally not sure why you would think its better the mini, imo a bigger heatsink will help to cool down the same GPU, i can see some small factor builds that do benefit from the smaller factor like the cube7, but on this layout that allows above 300mm gpus, i think its better to fit a bigger gpu, what im not too sure yet is weather of three things would end better 1) No shroud and removing the evga fans, and leaving the 120x25mm fans directly. 2) A thicker GPU with less thick case fans, EVGA is 2slot card, there are 2.5 cards, and swapping the NF-A12x25 for NF-12x15. These are things that i will test in the following months.

JheyoDELperu 0 points 1 month ago

omg..back in the day PCPArtpicker used to recomend more nicer looking -photo-shoot- builds .. i gueess we have more chance to be on the main-page more often! :3

Abula submitter 1 Build 1 point 29 days ago

Thanks for stopping by, sorry it didn't meet your criteria of nice looking photo shoot, ill try to get better pics next time.